halfamoon | The Unpopular Woman Love Post

bofoddity.livejournal.com posting in

It's pretty natural that some female characters do worse in fandom than others, right? And sometimes it's difficult, if not downright impossible, to find a place where you can fan these characters in peace, or fellow fans to fan them with. Not to mention trying to find fanworks about them. Experience says: It hard.

So, stealing the idea shamelessly from

doyle_sb4's Women of Doctor Who celebration post, here is a love post for the unpopular female characters. Like in

doyle_sb4's post, you start a thread with the character's name and their respective fandom in the subject line, after which people are free to share fic and vid recs, picspams, links to essays, defenses or simply thoughts of love about the character in question. Because unpopularity is a subjective thing most of the time, the character doesn't have to be somebody you know to be the fandom underdog for sure, but if the character also has a large number of fans it would be good to give some reasons about why they're hated and why it's wrong. Links to the character threads will be collected in this post.

Being a post for unpopular characters, this is a bashing free post. If you have any negative opinions about the characters discussed or the fandom rivals of the character of your choice, please keep them to yourself.

And now, knock yourselves out!

ETA: The character and the fandom should both be named in the subject line, I forgot to mention the fandom initially. Sorry about the inconvenience!

ETA 2: If you want to share you thoughts about a character who has a thread, please reply to the thread in question. General comments and threads for new characters go to the main post.

Threads:

Diana Fowley, X-Files (Vid rec, Fic Recs, Fic recs)
Jennifer Hailey, Stargate: SG1
Sakura, Naruto (Fic recs, Author rec)
Dawn Summers, Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Anastasia Dualla, Battlestar Galactica (Comic rec, Reasons why Dee is awesome)
Lana Lang, Smallville (Vid recs)
Maya Herrera, Heroes (Vid rec)
Relena Peacecraft, Gundam Wing (Fic recs)
Cally Henderson-Tyrol, Battlestar Galactica
Gwen Cooper, Torchwood
Jennifer Keller, Stargate: Atlantis (Community link, Fic recs, Fic recs)
Niki Sanders
Freya/Anise, Stargate: SG1 (Fic rec)
Maria Hill, Marvel Comics
Thirteen/Dr. Remy Hadley, House MD (Picspam links)
Bela Talbot, Supernatural (Fic rec, Fic)
Shiori Takatsuki, Revolutionary Girl Utena
Tifa Lockhart, Final Fantasy VII
Max Guevara, Dark Angel (Vid rec, Fic rec)
Elizabeth Swann, Pirates of the Caribbean (Author rec)
Cynthia Velasquez, Silent Hill 4
Allison Cameron, House MD (Meme rec)
Liz Sherman, Hellboy
Dr. Camille "Cam" Saroyan, Bones
Ruby, Supernatural
Chloe Sullivan, Smallville
Sakaki Ouka, Weiss Kreuz
Jo Harvelle, Supernatural
Inara Serra, Firefly (Fic Rec)
Lt. Colonel Hollis Mann, NCIS
Director Jenny Shepard, NCIS
Lilly Kane, Veronica Mars
Kate Austen, Lost
Buffy Summers, Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Teyla Emmagan, Stargate Atlantis (Link, vid rec)
Alex Drake, Ashes to Ashes
Anya Jenkins, Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Fic recs)
Koriand'r, DC Comics
Sam Carter, Stargate SG-1/Atlantis
Ana Lucia, Lost
Padme Amidala, Star Wars
Arwen, The Lord of the Rings
Martha Jones, Doctor Who/Torchwood
Kennedy, Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Lois Lane, Smallville
Ginny Weasley, Harry Potter
Shmi Skywalker, Star Wars
Mai, Avatar: The Last Airbender (Fic links, Fic links & recs)
Keiko Yukimura, Yu Yu Hakusho
Orihime Inoue, Bleach
Yakumo Tatsuro, Shinzo
Sakuno Ryuzaki, The prince Of Tennis
Tenten, Naruto
Anzu Mazaki, Yu-Gi-Oh!
Temari, Naruto
Himawari, xxxHOLiC
Karen Kouzuki/Kallen Stadtfeld, Code Geass
Yuuki Miaka, Fushigi Yuugi
Meg Griffin, Family Guy
Elliot Reid, Scrubs
Princess Zelda, Legend of Zelda series/Brawl
Mizuki Kaho, Card Captor Sakura
Colette Brunel, Tales of Symphonia
Kaoru Kamiya AND Tomoe Yukishiro, Rurouni Kenshin
Ninian, Fire Emblem: Rekka no Ken
Katara, Avatar: The Last Airbender (Vid rec)
Naomi Hunter, Metal Gear Solid
Scheris Adjani, Scryed
Silk Spectre II/Laurie Juspeczyk, Watchmen
Jun the Swan, Science Ninja Team Gatchaman
Hinata Hyuuga, Naruto
Momo Hinamori, Bleach
Miyako Inoue, Digimon 02
Misa Amane, Death Note
Juri Katou, Digimon Tamers
Asuka Tenjoin, Yu-Gi-Oh GX

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

bofoddity.livejournal.com

Despite being one of the most iconic female characters, Buffy gets more than her fair share of hatred in fandom. Buffy from early seasons tends to be criticized for being whiny because being a Slayer didn't always make her happy, and often for lack of compassion as well, especially when it comes to Faith. (Despite the fact that she was more concerned about Faith than any of the other Scoobies were where.) In later seasons she became the Bitch Buffy in eyes of the fandom because of her treatment of Spike in S6 and her leadership in general in S7.

In the early seasons, we must remember that Buffy was quite young back then, and being stuck with Destiny is a rather reasonable cause for whine, not to mention being in love with a dead guy with happiness issues. In S6 she had the one great excuse of being resurrected against her will and suffering from massive PTSD as a result, and depression doesn't always make you very nice. Personally I found it almost painfully easy to identify with her during the sixth season, and the manifestation of her depression was closest thing to my own experience I've ever seen come up with fiction. I do think that the writers should have handled the aftermath of S6 a lot better than they did, but I don't think Buffy's behavior made her evil. (Not to mention that again, it's easy to see how differently male and female characters are dealt with in situations like these: PTSD is an acceptable excuse for Cloud Strife's post-game behavior Final Fantasy VII-fandom.)

Also, while Buffy's flaws can be massive and hard to deny, she is also a very compassionate and brave person at heart, and despite the physical and mental pummeling she gets, she always rises in the end. And although she isn't afraid of making the hard choices, she also has no problem searching for alternative ones, which I find very admirable. In my eyes, she more than deserves her iconic status.

From:

fallingtowers.livejournal.com

Major WORD to all of that. Buffy is still my favourite BtVS character, for all these reasons.

From:

bofoddity.livejournal.com

She and Veronica Mars share the spot of my most favorite female character ever, and that's never going to change. If only there was a chance to see two of them on the same screen!

From:

fallingtowers.livejournal.com

If only there was a chance to see two of them on the same screen!

The screen would implode from the sheer awesomeness AT ONCE!

From:

bofoddity.livejournal.com

True, I wouldn't want to ruin a perfectly good screen!

From:

parallactic.livejournal.com

I once read a BtVS/VM crossover that shipped S2 Buffy and S1 Veronica. I wish I remembered the title or the author. The combined tiny blonde snarking was a thing of joy.

From:

fallingtowers.livejournal.com

If the memory comes back to you, please let me know. It could be such a fantastic read!

From:

rezo-eris.livejournal.com

I don't get this either. I always found Buffy to be awesome, funny, and loveable. (Except in the sixth and seventh seasons but I like to pretend that those never happened)

And Sarah Michelle Gellar is hot. Just had to say it.

From:

bofoddity.livejournal.com

I loved Buffy even in those seasons, though S7 was a little more difficult for me to swallow (mostly because SMG seemed to be disconnected from the character). But even with her bad years she's just so easy to feel for.

And yes, SMG. I do share the Eliza Dushku lust of the rest of the fandom, but Sarah has no problem making me go all BOW CHICA BOW WOW.

From:

lady-ganesh.livejournal.com

Damn right!

From:

bofoddity.livejournal.com

Ah, a voice of agreement!

From:

vivien

It always baffled me when people slagged Buffy... and yet kept watching the show. I was like "But why waste your time? Seriously?"

I've always loved Buffy. Her motivations and actions made perfect sense to me, and I thought she lived a hard life the best way she could.

I think from reading these threads and thinking about it, people seem to have issues with female characters that are not perfect or who do not act how they are "supposed to". Hmm. Interesting.

From:

bofoddity.livejournal.com

I personally need to either love the main character or the entire cast in order to really fall in love with something, so it baffles me too why some people even bother to stick around.

Sometimes it's like no matter how they're written, female characters just can't win. The same people who tend to slam women for their flaws usually also complain when characters aren't flawed enough, so you can only wonder how exactly you should try finding the middle ground.

From:

ryf.livejournal.com

so it baffles me too why some people even bother to stick around.

I rarely like the main characters (Jack on SG1, Sheppard on SGA, Mulder on The X-Files) and usually watch for the plot lines and the minor characters. *shrugs It works for me. With BtVS, I mainly watched for Anya, Willow and Giles. BtVS had great plot lines for minor characters and it felt much more like an ensemble cast.

From:

bofoddity.livejournal.com

People fan differently, that's true. I didn't mean to imply it was a bad thing, so if I was a jerk-ass, sorry! Plot lines matter to me too, it's just characters that usually make the fandom for me.

From:

ryf.livejournal.com

You were definitely not a jerk about it! I just thought I'd explain it from that perspective :) I am such a sucker for minor characters that I can usually live with not liking the major characters.

Re: Buffy Summers, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

From:

alixtii.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-02-10 03:49 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

ryf.livejournal.com

I admit, Buffy didn't grow on me when I first watched BtVS, especially the later seasons annoyed me. I was much more interested in Faith, Willow, Anya and Giles.

And then I rewatched it and wow, Buffy is kind of awesome. Especially season 5 and 6 Buffy is such a realistic woman, dealing with the losses and grief.

From:

bofoddity.livejournal.com

Buffy isn't always easy to like, I admit that. There have been several times I wanted to shake some sense into her myself, but that's also why she appeals to me so much in the end. Sometimes you like her, sometimes you don't, which is how our relationships with real life people are usually like.

From:

parallactic.livejournal.com

In S6 she had the one great excuse of being resurrected against her will and suffering from massive PTSD as a result, and depression doesn't always make you very nice.

It's also PTSD from her dead mother, her boyfriend dumping her for not relying on him enough (omg, wtf?), her sister's life being in danger, and wrestling with the short lifespan of slayers. There's also the combined weight of 5 years of living in the supernatural equivalent of a combat zone with very little back up and resources. It's totally understandable that Buffy would have a break down, and people suffering tend to behave in shitty ways, which does negatively affect the people closest to them.

(Not to mention that again, it's easy to see how differently male and female characters are dealt with in situations like these: PTSD is an acceptable excuse for Cloud Strife's post-game behavior Final Fantasy VII-fandom.)

If you asked me before, I'd say I didn't see it. But now I'm beginning to think that's the case. Male characters are cut more slack because of their issues, while female characters aren't. The majority of fandom overlooks mitigating circumstances in the case of female characters, and they seldom write fix-it or redemptive fic for them.

Part of why I like Buffy is because of her flaws. She feels like a real person, in that her screw ups tend to fall into a pattern. I also love that Buffy's character arcs are about her resilience, and fortitude, and while she suffers and screws up she still gets back up and keeps on going. That's at the heart of why I find her so heroic.

From:

bofoddity.livejournal.com

It's also PTSD from her dead mother, her boyfriend dumping her for not relying on him enough (omg, wtf?), her sister's life being in danger, and wrestling with the short lifespan of slayers. There's also the combined weight of 5 years of living in the supernatural equivalent of a combat zone with very little back up and resources. It's totally understandable that Buffy would have a break down, and people suffering tend to behave in shitty ways, which does negatively affect the people closest to them.

YES. And before she had always been able to deal. Went close to breakdowns? Yes. Was very moody at times? Yes. And she dealt with it all, but you can't deal forever. It's not even that she didn't try, but if the people around you don't understand just how bad you have it, trying gets hard too. One of the most unbelievable moments for me had to be when Scoobies told her that she was broke and that she would have to do something about it, despite, you know, having been dead for a while. Her breakdown may not have been so nice to watch, but you can definitely call it reasonable.

If you asked me before, I'd say I didn't see it. But now I'm beginning to think that's the case. Male characters are cut more slack because of their issues, while female characters aren't. The majority of fandom overlooks mitigating circumstances in the case of female characters, and they seldom write fix-it or redemptive fic for them.

It has become very clear to me too. Just think of how much people fan Gregory House in comparison to, well, just about any female character who has it worse than him. I do think it's perfectly okay to point out that maybe the suffering character could be less of an asshole to others, but biases are hard to ignore.

Part of why I like Buffy is because of her flaws. She feels like a real person, in that her screw ups tend to fall into a pattern. I also love that Buffy's character arcs are about her resilience, and fortitude, and while she suffers and screws up she still gets back up and keeps on going. That's at the heart of why I find her so heroic.

Me too. Sure, not everything was done perfectly, but she kept growing, and sometimes she had a setback or more and had to seek her way again, but she always found it, and grew some more. I also love that she isn't always easy to like. I may get angry with her for a while, but after the anger passes, I just love her more.

From:

parallactic.livejournal.com

One of the most unbelievable moments for me had to be when Scoobies told her that she was broke and that she would have to do something about it, despite, you know, having been dead for a while.

I didn't find that unbelievable, because Buffy did end up being solely responsible for the Summers household. I also think it's believable that the Scoobies didn't get it, and they had their own problems to deal with. What I did find unbelievable was how the Scoobies and the narrative treated Buffy like she was immature and reluctant to grow up, when it seemed like she was having PTSD/depression and falling apart.

I do think it's perfectly okay to point out that maybe the suffering character could be less of an asshole to others, but biases are hard to ignore.

Yes, this. Although I admit to a soft spot for difficult female characters.

I also love that she isn't always easy to like. I may get angry with her for a while, but after the anger passes, I just love her more.

Yes! Sometimes I want to shake Buffy. Other times, I cheer her on.

From:

liliaeth

Oh god, I hated the scoobies in that scene. Those bills came up while Buffy was dead, and since they were the ones keeping Buffy's death hidden, they should have been the ones paying for them. Especially since they knew they were going to try and bring her back.

If they couldn't pay the bills, they should have made sure that Dawn could go back to her father, or at the very least, sold the house and have Giles take in Dawn, so that she'd be taken care of.

From:

loligo.livejournal.com

I also love that she isn't always easy to like. I may get angry with her for a while, but after the anger passes, I just love her more.

YES. On the level of personality traits, skills, interests, etc., she is not the type of person I would want to hang out with. We wouldn't get along all that well. But my god, how could anyone watch that show and not LOVE her? She never stopped trying, she never stopped growing, she never stopped caring, no matter what kind of trauma she went through. I love her fiercely.