halfamoon | The Unpopular Woman Love Post

bofoddity.livejournal.com posting in

It's pretty natural that some female characters do worse in fandom than others, right? And sometimes it's difficult, if not downright impossible, to find a place where you can fan these characters in peace, or fellow fans to fan them with. Not to mention trying to find fanworks about them. Experience says: It hard.

So, stealing the idea shamelessly from

doyle_sb4's Women of Doctor Who celebration post, here is a love post for the unpopular female characters. Like in

doyle_sb4's post, you start a thread with the character's name and their respective fandom in the subject line, after which people are free to share fic and vid recs, picspams, links to essays, defenses or simply thoughts of love about the character in question. Because unpopularity is a subjective thing most of the time, the character doesn't have to be somebody you know to be the fandom underdog for sure, but if the character also has a large number of fans it would be good to give some reasons about why they're hated and why it's wrong. Links to the character threads will be collected in this post.

Being a post for unpopular characters, this is a bashing free post. If you have any negative opinions about the characters discussed or the fandom rivals of the character of your choice, please keep them to yourself.

And now, knock yourselves out!

ETA: The character and the fandom should both be named in the subject line, I forgot to mention the fandom initially. Sorry about the inconvenience!

ETA 2: If you want to share you thoughts about a character who has a thread, please reply to the thread in question. General comments and threads for new characters go to the main post.

Threads:

Diana Fowley, X-Files (Vid rec, Fic Recs, Fic recs)
Jennifer Hailey, Stargate: SG1
Sakura, Naruto (Fic recs, Author rec)
Dawn Summers, Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Anastasia Dualla, Battlestar Galactica (Comic rec, Reasons why Dee is awesome)
Lana Lang, Smallville (Vid recs)
Maya Herrera, Heroes (Vid rec)
Relena Peacecraft, Gundam Wing (Fic recs)
Cally Henderson-Tyrol, Battlestar Galactica
Gwen Cooper, Torchwood
Jennifer Keller, Stargate: Atlantis (Community link, Fic recs, Fic recs)
Niki Sanders
Freya/Anise, Stargate: SG1 (Fic rec)
Maria Hill, Marvel Comics
Thirteen/Dr. Remy Hadley, House MD (Picspam links)
Bela Talbot, Supernatural (Fic rec, Fic)
Shiori Takatsuki, Revolutionary Girl Utena
Tifa Lockhart, Final Fantasy VII
Max Guevara, Dark Angel (Vid rec, Fic rec)
Elizabeth Swann, Pirates of the Caribbean (Author rec)
Cynthia Velasquez, Silent Hill 4
Allison Cameron, House MD (Meme rec)
Liz Sherman, Hellboy
Dr. Camille "Cam" Saroyan, Bones
Ruby, Supernatural
Chloe Sullivan, Smallville
Sakaki Ouka, Weiss Kreuz
Jo Harvelle, Supernatural
Inara Serra, Firefly (Fic Rec)
Lt. Colonel Hollis Mann, NCIS
Director Jenny Shepard, NCIS
Lilly Kane, Veronica Mars
Kate Austen, Lost
Buffy Summers, Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Teyla Emmagan, Stargate Atlantis (Link, vid rec)
Alex Drake, Ashes to Ashes
Anya Jenkins, Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Fic recs)
Koriand'r, DC Comics
Sam Carter, Stargate SG-1/Atlantis
Ana Lucia, Lost
Padme Amidala, Star Wars
Arwen, The Lord of the Rings
Martha Jones, Doctor Who/Torchwood
Kennedy, Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Lois Lane, Smallville
Ginny Weasley, Harry Potter
Shmi Skywalker, Star Wars
Mai, Avatar: The Last Airbender (Fic links, Fic links & recs)
Keiko Yukimura, Yu Yu Hakusho
Orihime Inoue, Bleach
Yakumo Tatsuro, Shinzo
Sakuno Ryuzaki, The prince Of Tennis
Tenten, Naruto
Anzu Mazaki, Yu-Gi-Oh!
Temari, Naruto
Himawari, xxxHOLiC
Karen Kouzuki/Kallen Stadtfeld, Code Geass
Yuuki Miaka, Fushigi Yuugi
Meg Griffin, Family Guy
Elliot Reid, Scrubs
Princess Zelda, Legend of Zelda series/Brawl
Mizuki Kaho, Card Captor Sakura
Colette Brunel, Tales of Symphonia
Kaoru Kamiya AND Tomoe Yukishiro, Rurouni Kenshin
Ninian, Fire Emblem: Rekka no Ken
Katara, Avatar: The Last Airbender (Vid rec)
Naomi Hunter, Metal Gear Solid
Scheris Adjani, Scryed
Silk Spectre II/Laurie Juspeczyk, Watchmen
Jun the Swan, Science Ninja Team Gatchaman
Hinata Hyuuga, Naruto
Momo Hinamori, Bleach
Miyako Inoue, Digimon 02
Misa Amane, Death Note
Juri Katou, Digimon Tamers
Asuka Tenjoin, Yu-Gi-Oh GX

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

parallactic.livejournal.com

VM fanfic generally portrays her as an evil slutty bitch in the way of LoVe (Logan/Veronica). Based on canon they're not wrong; but it's also not the whole story. To this day I'm convinced that she was a good friend, but the worst girlfriend in existence. I don't have much evidence for this since most of her scenes are done in flashback. The Lilly I remember is charismatic, exhibitionistic, fun, self-centered, poor impulse control, and goofy. Every scene she was in was electric.

From:

bofoddity.livejournal.com

The Lilly I remember is charismatic, exhibitionistic, fun, self-centered, poor impulse control, and goofy. Every scene she was in was electric.

This is how I remember her too, and how I like her. She had such character in her that I had no trouble understanding how devastating it was for Veronica, Logan and everybody else in her life to lose her. She may not have been the best girlfriend in the world, but I never had any doubt that she loved Veronica more than anything. Even if I didn't like her otherwise, that only would make her awesome in my books.

From:

parallactic.livejournal.com

She may not have been the best girlfriend in the world, but I never had any doubt that she loved Veronica more than anything. Even if I didn't like her otherwise, that only would make her awesome in my books.

Yes, this. For a character who's so boy crazy, there's also a good case to be made that she's really girl-oriented. Lilly's like the gender inversion of the Bros Before Hos Guy [*]--the promiscuous guy who treats women like crap, as disposable, as sex objects; but is always there for his male friends. With Lilly, you could read her as sleeping around with boys to piss off her mom, and she's very encouraging of Veronica and acted like Veronica should stop hiding her awesome.

[*] I mean the ugly, sexist version of the phenomenon.

From:

liviapenn.livejournal.com

She may not have been the best girlfriend in the world, but I never had any doubt that she loved Veronica more than anything. Even if I didn't like her otherwise, that only would make her awesome in my books.

Totally agreed. Even before all the random tragedy that happened to Veronica, you get the sense she was kind of an outsider and a weirdo, living too much inside her own head, and she *needed* someone to bring her out of her shell. Lilly was the perfect person to do that.

From:

areyoumymemmy.livejournal.com

Oh my god, thank you for this! I loved Lilly from the second she came on screen, and I was really taken aback by how fast she became the Big Bad to some of the more rabid Logan or LoVe fans. It was like making Lilly a crazy bitch was the easiest way to woobify Logan and get him off the hook for all the shitty things he does throughout canon.

And yeah, terrible girlfriend, but Logan was not exemplary either (granted he did not sleep with her mother!) and I always thought both of them sort of enjoyed the drama of their relationship.

Also, I totally agree with your description. She was absolutely electric and you could see in the flashbacks alone how devastating it was for everyone to lose her and how her death and the reactions could cause such changes in Veronica.

From:

bofoddity.livejournal.com

ITA, in lack of better words. Some LoVe-fans turned on Veronica too when she wasn't as trusting of Logan as fans hoped she would be, but what I like both about her and Lilly is that they both have very strong personalities. And if Logan gets off for his bad behavior because of his bad childhood, then it's okay for Lilly and Veronica to be forgiven too.

From:

parallactic.livejournal.com

Yeah. I don't want to come across as saying that what Lilly did wasn't that bad, because what she did was pretty bad. But at the same time, the sheer rabidness of the Lilly-hate by LoVe fans makes no sense, because she's dead and not a threat to their ship. I also read Logan/Lilly as two damaged people in a relationship who sorta enable each other, and wouldn't know a healthy way of relating if it bit them in the ass. There's no real need to demonize Lilly.

I don't expect other fans to be as fond of her as I am, but I also get frustrated at how they flatten her and erase her other qualities: her diva charm, her vivaciousness, the lost potential of how she might have changed once out of her family environment, and how there's little evidence that Lilly was a bad friend to Veronica (like she's portrayed in fanfic.)

From:

liviapenn.livejournal.com

Lilly was *amazing*. She could be cruel, judgemental, unforgiving, a liar-- but she was also self-possessed, utterly independent, unashamedly sexual, and she *loved life*. The thing I loved about her in canon was that yes, she was promiscuous, but it was never hinted or implied that she should have been ashamed of being slutty, or that she "deserved" to get killed because she cheated on her boyfriend.

I always thought that a lot of Veronica's pure, unstoppable, indomitable *will*-- and her unforgiving, sometimes vindictive urge for revenge-- were things she picked up from Lilly. Since these are two of the things I love most about the character, how can I not love Lilly for inspiring Veronica in this way?

From:

parallactic.livejournal.com

The thing I loved about her in canon was that yes, she was promiscuous, but it was never hinted or implied that she should have been ashamed of being slutty, or that she "deserved" to get killed because she cheated on her boyfriend.

Yeah, that's what I liked about the show. Unfortunately, the fandom tended to demonize her, and did imply those things.

I always thought that a lot of Veronica's pure, unstoppable, indomitable *will*-- and her unforgiving, sometimes vindictive urge for revenge-- were things she picked up from Lilly.

I like this, because I've sometimes wondered what drew Lilly and Veronica together. I can totally see this. I also think that Lilly saw something in Veronica, and encouraged her to come out of her shell and show it to the rest of the world. And post-Lilly's death, Veronica finally acted on Lilly's inspiration.

From:

liviapenn.livejournal.com

Yeah, that's what I liked about the show. Unfortunately, the fandom tended to demonize her, and did imply those things.

Blagh. VM is one of those shows I never really got into the "fandom" of, mostly because I got into it late & watched it on DVD rather than real-time, and also because VM is one of those shows for me that is just so satisfying, I don't really *need* to read fic for it. (Although I will sometimes make an exception for Logan/Weevil or Veronica futurefic.) But yeah, I can totally see how Lilly would tend to get flattened out in fanfic into the bad-girl-cliche character... :(

From:

alixtii.livejournal.com

Rare is the fic where I can resist having ghost!Lilly show up at some point. She's just so much fun, and so much alive (erm, except not literally, because she's a ghost). And I love her when she was alive--never taking no for answer, never letting anyone get in between her and what she wanted. A wonderfully will-to-powery role model for Veronica, who would have to learn to take on that mantle of independence for herself.